Games that are funny and topical here in the US are not necessarily going to be hilarious in a place like say Japan, think Cards Against Community and other crazy games. Localization is a necessary part of success in ecommerce and retail in general. Languages, cultures, and interests change wherever you go so you have to think like that local country thinks as a brand. Jana Krekic, CEO of YLT Translations walks us through how to think and adjust our mindset effectively.

View Video Podcast Here.

Michael Maher  00:00

Good morning, evening afternoon. I don't think anybody's in the afterlife listening to this, but welcome to The Longer Game. The show that we talk about retail, we talk about what retail looks like. You know, it's changing. And there are a lot of important things to go through. And my guest today has a very specific role when it comes to retail and especially with eCommerce. Her name is Jana Krekic. And I think, I think I said that right. Although she did tell me just go by Jana like, Cher, or you know, Oprah, so Jana. She is the owner and CEO of YLT translations. Welcome.

Jana Krekic  00:43

Thank you so much for having me today. And you totally nailed that last name. So, good. Good job.

Michael Maher  00:49

One point for me zero for you. Tell, tell us, tell us more about, you know what you do with YLT Translations because it really is, you know, something that I talk about a lot is branding. And in branding, you have to know who your end consumer is, who your target audience is, in order for you to really succeed as a brand and to last long term. So talk about what you do. And I think we can we can find out more about, you know, branding from that perspective.

Jana Krekic  01:21

Right. So we help sellers expand to international marketplaces, we're mostly focused on Amazon, but like we've been, I mean, I have been an ecommerce for the last 10 years. So like I've, I've, I've seen everything when it comes to good branding, bad branding, not translating, well, what you do not conveying the right message to your audience. And in light of recent events, like COVID, and everything, like people have been pivoting to international marketplaces that also search on different channels like Walmart record, and like other marketplaces, other than the Amazon selling on and off Amazon, of course, but we've seen a big increase in like, very big brands, going to international marketplaces, something that did did not want to do before, but they kind of saw the big potential, and that they're basically, you know, struggling on the US marketplace, with like, tons of competitors. And when you go to Germany, for instance, you will see that it's not their situation. So you could be you know, leaving a lot of money on the table, you know, because you're not working on your expansion. And I mean, we've like been working with, you know, brands from the being sold in Sephora, CVS, like big furniture, yeah, like insanely big brands that they had no experience selling on Amazon or any like ecommerce experience, they're just like, we want to do it this year, so that we've seen like a big increase in that like, right after COVID, let's say like, April last year, that's like when things really started, like I think again, and a lot of them are very big brands, you know, and they kind of find a very big challenge into conveying the right message to the audience, let's say in Europe, or Japan, because it's completely a completely different type of customer. And you don't know how to talk to them because the sales lead fluffy style from the States doesn't work so well, like Germany, it's like quite the opposite. So you will not be doing *inaudible* 

Michael Maher  03:24

Works well for the kitchen, the bathroom, the stairs, that kind of stuff doesn't work in Germany, it's factual is 2020 inches by 15, has three settings. Like it has to be very straightforward, almost more mechanical, right?

Jana Krekic  03:39

Yes, very mechanical, very, like, you know, go straight to business don't like, don't tell me that your product is like the best ever, and that you will be amazed by these amazing features and stuff like that, you know, like don't push clients into buying the product, they'll just get to you know, they're just gonna, you know, scare them away. 

Michael Maher  03:59

It's a turn-off. 

Jana Krekic  04:00

Yeah, it's completely like a very, very big turn-off. And they're like somebody like words that you should avoid, you know, like, when you're selling like bath products, they're just like, pamper yourself and like do this LUSH products and Germans are like yeah, but how does that help me? You know, like, well that like feel like moisturizing and yeah, no, I don't feel as if I, 

Michael Maher  04:22

well moisturize skin. 

Jana Krekic  04:23

Yes, well, this was moisturized by super dry skin yes or no. You know, some basically, they just don't like it. 

Michael Maher  04:29

That's a great example. How would you if someone in the state said like this, this soap you know, luscious body feel smooth texture? Enjoying yourself? What would that like that line of coffee look like in Germany?

Jana Krekic  04:43

It will be something similar to like, it will prevent the dryness of your skin. Or it doesn't leave stains on your if it's like a body lotion or something like that. It doesn't leave like stains on your wardrobe or it's like it's it makes, you can say like, the skin is like smoother. But you just have to skip all of these like adjectives or like explaining the how well you're going to feel yourself. Because Germans are like, well, we're gonna decide how we're going to feel. And you're gonna tell me what products you know, like, so don't tell me. Oh, I feel like they don't? Yeah, it's a different approach. It's a different language. And there's like a really cool example, this, there was this glass espresso cup that we did. Originally, the listing was in the US. So like, one of the bullets said, like, it was like small glass espresso, it was like a really cool looking little glass. And, and it's 

Michael Maher  05:44

Like a double-walled glass?

Jana Krekic  05:45

Like a double-walled glass. Exactly. So like the first blood said, like, cool, cooler, coolest, that's like the first sentence in the first bullet. And we translate that as thermal isolated glass, does it, it's like, that's a cool design. Or the third bullet was like, it said, it said, just like your, your granny used to do when, when, while she sat in front of her fireplace, and she did want to burn her fingers, blah, blah, blah. So like, and then that blood, we said something like, the structure of the glass would not burn your fingers, basically, or like, you're going to enjoy. Yay, yes. Like literally, like, not just don't go to my childhood memories with my grandma. And 

Michael Maher  06:37

I'll go there when I wanna go there

Jana Krekic  06:38

like, if you call that, yeah, it's just gonna tell me that it's not gonna be because there's no handle, there's just this mold. So just tell me that I'm not a member my fingers while I enjoy my glass of espresso. It also that those are like really, like completely different examples of the same product that people would not understand. If you kept talking about, like, you know, those like metaphors and like, emotionally trying to evolve with the, with the customers like Germans don't like that. So that's something that *inaudible*

Michael Maher  07:06

So many people talk about marketing. Well, so I was just gonna say people talk about marketing nowadays. And they talk about how you want to evoke an emotion in what people are doing. But that's very specific to certain countries, I'd say probably, US, Canada, UK, you know, some of the more Western countries. I mean, Germany still is, is kind of westernized, it's just, you know, different

Jana Krekic  07:30

It is, you know, like, you really have to be careful with that. Like, of course, if you're selling like baby products, or some like plushy toys for toddlers, of course, you're gonna have like, you know, a language that's not going to be so super, super strict, but you really

Michael Maher  07:44

They don't say, baby toy.

Jana Krekic  07:46

Like, you really have to pay attention to what?

Michael Maher  07:48

Toy for baby.

Jana Krekic  07:49

Toy for baby, toy for toddlers, stuff like that. And also, like when talking about you know, like, now it's a very interesting topic about the gender neutral, you know, like, she, she, her, him, her whatever, you know, yeah, gender is in terms like, for instance, like in the Netherlands, when you sell products, you should not, you should not explain that they are, let's say, toys for boys or toys for girls, or people over there. Okay? Oh, like it. Those are like toys for toddlers, or for kids. Or like, it's kind of more general. So they're very, you know, very radical when it comes to like California. So they're like, very, like comes to that. So

Michael Maher  08:32

Very gender-neutral. Let people just almost like the German, like, all decide my identity. I just want you to tell me what age group is for?

Jana Krekic  08:39

Yes, exactly. So another when it comes to your brand, if you're selling like Barbie dolls, and like, I don't know, pink slippers or something, you want to leave that as, you know, gender-neutral type of thing. Like that's what happens in the Netherlands. And like, if you look for like keywords in the Netherlands, like keywords that describe a product as I'm talking about general like Google ads or any other like search engine, it's like the search volume for like, toys for girls is like way lower than like, okay, toys for kids, or toddlers or preschool kids or kitten garden toys and stuff like that. So you're gonna have to go like little bit

Michael Maher  09:18

*inaudible* cutting edges just societal issues. It sounds like, you're like, you're right there with because you have to be

Jana Krekic  09:24

Yes. I mean, you're talking to your consumer and when the seller, seller comes to you, and they're like, just do this, they're just like doing a translation. And I'm like, Yeah, Bob, there's so many things you have to, you know, take into consideration like this. This is pure localization. If you have a website if you have a Shopify store, if you sell an Amazon like you have to, you have to know this. Because I personally like I would not buy like this product with this shady description in my language like, I mean you do, there's like,

Michael Maher  09:56

No, I wouldn't, you know, product. Well, well, to that point, there are a lot of sellers that we know that there's a lot of sellers that are from China because of on the Amazon US marketplace. Because they're that's where a lot of manufacturing is done. So it makes sense that they would want to cut out the middleman and sell directly to people. However, especially among I would say sellers, we you start to notice, and I think consumers too, you start to notice copy that the English isn't quite correct. And you know, someone says, product will get home better. And they're trying to say this product will help you to get home better and faster. It's a GPS, let's say the GPS system. Protocol home better, more, more, more good times. Like it sounds. The best way I know how to say it is without trying to be offensive is its sounds Chinesey it sounds like someone's trying to speak English. 

Jana Krekic  10:54

Yea like, Chinglish

Michael Maher  10:55

*inaudible*

Jana Krekic  10:55

Yeah. Chinglish. 

Michael Maher  10:56

Yeah, exactly.

Jana Krekic  10:57

But there's so many bad examples,

Michael Maher  10:59

Chinglish, Okay, yeah, I mean that is really what it is.

Jana Krekic  11:02

It is what it is. It's like a mix of Chinese-like typo sentences just translated very poorly to English. And I have like tons of like examples when people like really do a bad job with that. Like, I remember, there was like a, there was an Italian marketplace. It was in Amazon and LE. And they were marketing for a bikini for plus-size women. But unfortunately, like Italian translation, what how what the word that they use for plus size was groso also, which means big or fat. So they were basically advertising for like a bikini for fat women. And they had like,

Michael Maher  11:40

Not a best way to sell a bikini.

Jana Krekic  11:43

Not, not very flattering, not a euphemism. So basically their reviews were sooo bad

Michael Maher  11:48

Hey, you badass here is your bikini

Jana Krekic  11:51

Here is your bikini

Michael Maher  11:52

yea, not gonna fly very well. 

Jana Krekic  11:53

Size of a 10. condemn what you can wear.

Michael Maher  11:59

You guys have a 10, Hey, we want to be considerate, but it's the size of a tenth. So it will definitely cover your whole entire rear end. I think honestly, marketing is about knowing your audience. And for a lot of us sellers out there, it's important to know that while your product target audience here in the US might be someone that's more artistic, let's say you sell you know, colored pencils, and sets like that, you might be saying, Hey, you're gonna get beautiful, lush designs, you're gonna have vibrant, bright colors, you're trying to evoke that emotion people, but let's say you go to Germany, you're gonna say, you know, brush width is three millimeters, and you have seven different colors. And you're gonna have to be very, very technical, it doesn't mean that your target audience has necessarily changed. It just means, especially when this is all about localization, when you go and talk to a different country, a different group of people, you have to speak their their language, you know, literally, and you can't you can't say things that might work in one place, just like, you know, how I, how I talked to my dad might be a lot different than how I talked to my daughter. 

Jana Krekic  13:20

That's a good example. 

Michael Maher  13:21

So you know, you have and they both love me, I believe they both love me, I'll have to call both. Well, my daughter's only eight. She's in school. So I'm just gonna say she does, I'll call and check on my dad later, just to make sure that he does so that I'm accurate on air. But it's a different audience, you have to make sure that you're speaking to that specific audience and not just going based on what you think there's a great, there's a great book called The Four Agreements. I don't know if you've heard of that, Jana. 

Jana Krekic  13:50

Yeah. 

Michael Maher  13:51

By Don. Yeah. Okay. By Don Miguel Ruiz are highly recommended to anyone out there that's listening. And the reason being, it talks about this, this similar concept and that, you know, we make a lot of agreements with ourselves like, this is a, this is a tumbler, this is a microphone, this is a shirt, and we've all just kind of agreed upon those things. But those things are, are are what they are, it doesn't matter what we call them, I could call this a forfeit newgen. And it would still be a thing that covers my body. So we make all these agreements with ourselves and over time we start to make these agreements like people tell you a Michael, you suck, you're not good at this, and I start believing that and it in turn says Hey, start making different agreements with yourself and therefore that you should you can live your life by one is always do your best. So put your best foot forward. Number two is don't make assumptions. Number three is don't take anything personally. And number four is the impact. Oh, I'm sorry, always do your best is for number one is Be impeccable with your word. Be impeccable with your word. So that little localization speaks to those first two agreements, be impeccable with your word and don't make assumptions. If you are using words that are hurting people like bikini the size of a 10, I don't think I'll ever get over that. It's the best line. I've heard on my podcast forever, that we're just going to start advertising as the longer game, a bikini the size of, we'll see what kind of reactions we get.

Jana Krekic  15:25

Well, I think it's definitely, you know, it will grab attention and you will, you know, people like, what is this about something interesting. Something's happened to me these three now.

Michael Maher  15:36

10s? Yeah, I feel that I feel like the size of a tent after Thanksgiving. So if I want to be counted for right after Thanksgiving, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go here. Yeah, right. Sounds pretty spot on. Right? So we're talking about localization. We're also talking about, you know, how people perceive different products. So and also, you know, it's really important to know how especially because English is such a global language, really, you know, more people speak Mandarin or Chinese than they do English, but English, it's such a global business language. Because, you know, there's lots of commerce that comes from the US. When you go and look at different cultures, you have to understand how they speak or utilize words like English and so for instance, I studied Japanese for eight years, I can't speak it fluently because I never have anyone to talk about with I got a bunch of books that I could go you know, reread through. But there's a whole alphabet in Japanese that is dedicated to American words. So like coffee is kohi. It's very, very similar,

Jana Krekic  16:47

Fear is biru.

Michael Maher  16:50

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's, there's such an a fascination and affinity for American culture, that there is an there's an alphabet. And it's funny, there's three alphabets in, in Japanese. There's these two more simple ones. And then there's the the more complicated one would just kanji, which they got from from Chinese or Mandarin, it's the same, like you have very complicated looking characters, but they took their this whole alphabet, this original Hiragana alphabet is what it is. And they use all the same constant all the same sounds like a e u e o ma mi ma mi mo, and they create a different symbols, somewhat similar, but different symbols and a different alphabet, they call it Katakana. If I haven't lost you by now, thank you for continuing on. But it's all for its offer American words, that's exactly it. Or like, you can say, toilet, you can say, utoerai or you could say toyde, toyde is like toilet. So there's, there's so many different ways, depending on the country where you're going, you also have to know maybe how they might interpret certain things. And that that makes a big difference. I will talk about some of the translations that you do in Asian countries, how do those differ from you know, maybe like something in Europe versus going into the US.

Jana Krekic  18:07

So exactly what you just mentioned. So when you do Japanese, and we also do Korean, but like mostly we do, Japanese from all the, you know, Asian languages and deputies is really interesting, because as you said, like it has the English version of Japanese, then you have the Japanese, Japanese, and you have the kanji, which is the third thing. So basically, when you have your product or anything like online, in Shopify, or any of the web stores and stuff like that, you need to have like optimized descriptions of the product. But it's important to like when it comes to keywords for these products, you have to have the keywords that are in Japanese, English, and then Japanese, Japanese. So you have to include both in those translations and stuff like that, and people don't do that. And that's, you know, that's really, really bad. And when it comes to just,

Michael Maher  18:55

Putting them back to back, how do you do something like that, like, with toilet, you know, toyde versus utoerai, how do you put those two words together? Like a slash? Or what do you do?

Jana Krekic  19:05

No, no, you wouldn't put that like, you know, maybe like, you know, if it's a if it's a title of the product, then you could put two of them like right next to each other, maybe like, the hyphen, a little bit

Michael Maher  19:15

You just meant throughout the copy

Jana Krekic  19:16

Yeah, *inaudible* like that. Right? But like, if you want to have it like inside of the copy, of course, you're not gonna put like this and that there's gonna be like, maybe like one paragraph you use like one word, and then the second paragraph, you use the same word, but in English, Japanese, for instance. So but you're just gonna have to kind of mix and match. I mean, I'm not a my husband also studied Japanese and he hasn't used it, but he does.

Michael Maher  19:38

You knew a lot about Japanese. I mean, I knew you know a lot about languages in general. How many language are you fluent in? 

Jana Krekic  19:46

Yeah. I speak five languages, and I have a background in languages myself. So I actually went to school, got my Bachelor's and Master's in four languages and literature. And then after that, I went to eCommerce. Basically,

Michael Maher  19:58

You have such a clutch position because there are more I'm seeing more people start to do translation. But local translation with localization is huge and people will pay money for that and they should because you are crafting their business to make sense in a country that they're not familiar with but I was gonna say you do know seem to know a lot about Japanese so that's interesting that your husband study Japanese as well.

Jana Krekic  20:31

Yeah, it's very interesting. It's really such a fascinating culture and so different than anything else. And like one of the products that we've seen that works like basically all the best sellers on other marketplaces like in the US and Europe, they rarely work in Japan. In Japan, you barely don't have any competitors. They also have Rakuten, they have Amazon,

Michael Maher  20:53

It's gonna say, Rakuten is very, very big. 

Jana Krekic  20:55

Yes, very big. But like the PPC and the marketing and everything going to pay for it. It's literally so cheap. It's ridiculous. Because you don't have to,

Michael Maher  21:04

Talk about advertising. Because in like in an Amazon, Japan, so I started out my whole eCommerce, Korea, I started selling back in 2010. And when I launched on Amazon, Japan, just a couple products when I was over there, but I never really got into advertising on that side, because it was more focused on the US side. How does that work? How does advertising work in a country like Japan, where there's kanji where there's different alphabets? How does that how do you, I'm just like, curious, how does that even work?

Jana Krekic  21:36

Right? Well, it's I mean, first of all, what is really tricky is that there there are no tools for these keywords that you're gonna you know, use in your campaigns or anywhere else it has to all be done manually basically are just gonna look what others are using and stuff like that. And so what I know that one PPC agency that we work with what they do is like we give them like a list of keywords let's say the toilet we read like a couple of different variations of the toilet like you know, English and the Japanese version and stuff like that. They're just gonna put all of that if that's like something if they're selling I don't know like like a special version of toilet paper with Harajuku like girls on it, then you're gonna Harajuku Girls like in like three different types of keywords, but they'll gonna owe me the same thing. So I would go for like,

Michael Maher  22:28

Bid on each term to see what.

Jana Krekic  22:30

Yes, I think, and also because it's not expensive as it is elsewhere. You're not gonna I mean, depending on let's say, I think Harajuku is expensive, because it's very popular over there. But I will say that other products would not have so expensive clicks, like versus like one of these products that we did was um, it was some sort of like a it's like he was for martial arts. And it's a shield that you you put down there you put on your thing, and it's like a shield and,

Michael Maher  23:02

Put on your thing. I like that. Yeah, this is the best episode so far. By the way. Tenths, tenths for your butts, things for your thing. This is, this is great.

Jana Krekic  23:16

And then it comes in like all these like crazy colors, like cartoon-inspired themes and stuff like that. 

Michael Maher  23:22

Oh, wow. 

Jana Krekic  23:22

Yes, it looks really crazy. And it went so well on the Japanese marketplace because that's the product for Japan, not for Italy. But it is for Japan, right. So I remember,

Michael Maher  23:35

Seeing this like a cup that you're putting on the is it? Or is it just knowing Oh, I have a kitty cat on my on, my cup that makes me feel better about performing and martial arts?

Jana Krekic  23:45

I don't know. I don't know. 

Michael Maher  23:47

I guess people were crazy underwear in the States or anywhere else. So it doesn't really matter. 

Jana Krekic  23:51

I know but this is like something what you're just gonna protect you like we're doing your Jiu-Jitsu or like whatever martial arts that they feel like in Japan, it becomes like a full like a almost like a body suit that comes with that you can like buy that it's gonna you know, it's a bundle it also got to buy that with that last word, but it's all like it will dress up for like Halloween, but people absolutely loved it over there. You know, like some things that are super weird. That only gonna work there. And there's I'm saying like, you know, know your best sellers, but like don't think that your bestseller from the US is necessarily going to be bestseller in Japan because like such a specific culture you know, they have and you know, like in Japan, I'm sure you know this like it's, it's very rude to look somebody in the eye. It's just like, that's like the rudest thing you can do to a person and stuff like that. So there could have really different and you have to do a little bit of research and what I always do, like if you're maybe wondering if you're a brand or like your products are going to be a good fit, like you don't have to pay tons of money because from what I know there, there are no tools are going to give you like the you know, like the what just came out from Amazon, the growth explorer, like the tool that's going to tell you if it's gonna be a good fit or not, and you don't have that for Japan. But what you can do is like, you can go to like x five groups, like on Facebook, and just going to ask Japanese over there and be like, hey, so like, what do you think about my brand? Like, would you buy this? Like, why do you think it's good? You know, because a lot of times, like, what I do is like, people come to us and then for some products, like we know, they're gonna work, you know, it's gonna be like a hit or not, but some of the products are like we've never had, they're like, is this gonna work in Germany? And we're like, Well, I don't know. But let me ask my team of translators. So I asked like, 12 of them. And I'm like, What do you think of this product? And the product was Mr. Mrs. T-shirt, it says like, Oh, Mr. Smiley face. And then Mrs. I was smiling with a crown or something like that. Yeah. And the product did not go well in Germany, like, at all. And she was like, Well, why? Like, I optimize everything. I don't understand why this doesn't work. And all of my translators like, no, like, don't we would not ever find this. This would not work in German, like not at

Michael Maher  26:05

all, like itchy for for German. Yeah. Whereas I feel like, Yeah, US people. It would maybe go to that. 

Jana Krekic  26:11

Yeah, probably well, right. But like, there's Germans

Michael Maher  26:14

Germans don't like puns maybe or jokes or anything.

Jana Krekic  26:18

Yeah, I think they like I mean, I'm sure they have like some like pun intended products, but like in their own versions, or, 

Michael Maher  26:26

Yeah, it's very different.

Jana Krekic  26:28

Yeah, they would enjoy it, or they would have fun with it. And talking of product, there was like a, there was like a game that we did, it was like a very, like, it was super, super, super insanely successful. They had like over 20,000 reviews on Amazon. And it's like a it's like a board on board game. And it but it involved the name of the biggest Nazi leader known to humankind. And 

Michael Maher  26:54

Oh, gosh. 

Jana Krekic  26:55

War game that was like, you know, people, it's like, you know, finding out like secret clues and stuff like that, like Kool-Aid or something like that. But the, you know, in name of the game, so they wanted to go to German marketplace. And my team was just like, oh my god, you know, I was like, This is so not 

Michael Maher  27:15

Yeah, they were in shock. 

Jana Krekic  27:17

Yeah, they were completely in shock. And then but the client was like, No, we've got like, a lots of requests for it. Like from Germany. Let's do it. Let's try to do this. Okay. And all my trades, I'm just gonna get like side notes. Like, we don't think this is you know, but like, we're gonna do it. I mean, if you're really interested that

Michael Maher  27:34

We're gonna do it. Yes, you do. And you're paying us?

Jana Krekic  27:36

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, sometimes, like, we would not do a product. Like for instance, we would not do it. Like, last year, it was like tons of like, face masks. Like, we will not do that. We will not do translation for the face masks, also, because it's super difficult. And, you know, like, it's just don't do just, you know, fail. At that point, when people were like, oh, *inaudible*

Michael Maher  27:56

There was so much regulation around the face. Yeah.

Jana Krekic  27:59

Hovering. It's okay. Now to morally bad for that. And I don't, I don't remember there were some *inaudible*

Michael Maher  28:07

Wise of you, by the way to like, preface stuff and say, yeah, hey, we don't we're not going to do this. Because you're gonna waste you're gonna waste money on it.

Jana Krekic  28:15

Exactly. And we're like, No, I mean, what, yeah, you'll pay me and then one, I'm not gonna get rich off, like 300 bucks, you're gonna give me for this product? So yeah, sometimes we do say no, when we just really think it's not appropriate. Or if it's like, no, like, my translators don't feel comfortable in translating this or, you know, and stuff like that. It's rare. But sometimes when all the dresses are just like, No, this is not what we want to do. And it's not going to do well, on this marketplace. We're like, well, you might want to skip this marketplace, you know, because I'd rather like be transparent and tell people if it's gonna work or not, they just take their money, and then they don't see any results. Like that's the worst thing. It can happen, you know? So,

Michael Maher  28:56

and that's honestly, that's bad for your brand. That's bad for wealth. One of the things that I think about for my agency, Cartology is our resume is the work that we're doing for people. And so if we're not doing work, where people want to refer us to other people, because we do great work, and they're willing to talk about that, then that does us no, good. So I'd rather say, No, I don't think we're going to be a good fit for you. Because you're very focused on this. And we're, that's not what our focus is, I'm okay with that I'd rather grow more sustainably and with the right people, even if that means, you know, we don't hit, you know, triple-digit growth or whatever the case might be every single year, I want to build a solid base of people. So I think you're wise to do that. I was also going to mention that, you know, you talk about different cultures. So, you know, where you send your products or how you approach people. It's not just the language but it's what you're doing and how you approach people like that. You know, that game that was in the US that had you know, the most well known Nazi leader and they wanted to put it into action. You know, you have to think about where the products aren't what the culture is, like, one of the greatest examples I have of that is Amazon going into China several years ago. And eventually, they ended up pulling out. And the reason was, it's not that they didn't have enough money, or that they didn't have, you know, the technology, that capability, but places like Tmall and Taobao that know that are, you know, native to China and know and understand the culture, the cuteness factor, all that you know, how to how to approach things, all that stuff makes a big difference. And that's why I believe Amazon made a pulling out of China because they just didn't know how to speak to that market was effectively as the other people.

Jana Krekic  30:45

Oh, I have a really good story when it comes to Chinese eCommerce. So a while ago, Dolce Gabbana like the famous you know, the famous designers from Italy. So,

Michael Maher  30:54

I'm wearing Dolce Gabbana underwear. I'm just kidding.

Jana Krekic  30:59

Your pants. Now they launched this campaign, I will never be on track. So they launched this campaign. And there was like a new like, I don't know, like a spring, summer, whatever. And so in the in that video, there was a girl, she was very Dolce & Gabbana, and she was Asian. And she was eating pizza like slice of pizza with her chopsticks. And they launched this like worldwide Chinese got so freakin upset that they banned hold Dolce Gabbana merchandise in China that year. They're like, No, and then they demanded an apology but then they'll take a Dolce & Gabbana being assholes as they always are. They're like, not gonna apologize. And they're like, you know. 

Michael Maher  31:54

We're Dolce & Gabbana. Yeah, 

Jana Krekic  31:55

Yeah, we're Dolce & Gabbana, *inaudible* so they got so upset that they got like, really, because they're like, very, very sensitive about their culture. I mean, I get the idea, like, wanted to cut up combine, like the Ely with China, you know, chopsticks on pizza, ha stuff like that. But it was so bad. 

Michael Maher  32:12

Maybe well-intended. But that's execution

Jana Krekic  32:15

But I mean, that marketing, you know, they had a marketing to definitely be fired. Because I mean, you know, like, I think that if they like, you know, if they spread the the idea of like, what do you want to do? I'm sure people would have like, shut that down and be like,

Michael Maher  32:31

well, like no point you ask your translators, even though you're the head of the company. You ask your translators, what do you think about this? And they're, they understand local or native things are most or most of your translators in the countries that you're Yeah, that they're translating the language. Okay, so, so they know and understand culture. You're relying upon that. I would imagine that Dolce and Gabbana has enough money to say, hey, let's pull some some Chinese people and see if they like these chopsticks on a pizza. But maybe they just let their pride get in the way. 

Jana Krekic  33:01

No, no. And also interesting story about like, you know, localization, how very big brands fail there is Starbucks. And you don't have Starbucks in Australia. I don't know if you knew that. 

Michael Maher  33:14

Yeah. 

Jana Krekic  33:17

Yeah. So they just kind of went to Australia and they were like, we just opened like 5000 You know, like Starbucks over here. Like everybody loves Starbucks, Well, that's my whole US charity too Yeah, and they just gonna open everything and like, what they did not even like, you know, just come out did not have any business plan obviously then that thing through what they were doing their Australian coffee culture is more closer to Italian coffee culture, but like macchiatos, espresso, you know, not the you know, pour overs and,

Michael Maher  33:47

Starbucks doesn't do well in Italy they have *inaudible* 

Jana Krekic  33:50

Yeah, I can imagine I don't know why they dont *inaudible*.

Michael Maher  33:52

Because Italians are *inaudible* Yeah. Like that. That's very, very true. *inaudible* so I don't know if if they're big in in France, either. But I know that getting that Starbucks getting into the Asian market was something that was tentative as well. And it seems like fast food places do really well in Asian market because it represents to them American culture, and they're getting, you know, they love a lot of American culture stuff. But yeah, I mean, I think it's smart.

Jana Krekic  34:27

You know, who's really big in Japan, Costco. 

Michael Maher  34:31

Oh, wow. Really? Yeah. Are you getting translations for their site? For people?

Jana Krekic  34:37

No, no, okay. Okay. We're doing Rapidan and Amazon but when it comes to Costco, like so what was very interesting, so like Japanese people, they like, you know, locally produced products like organic food and stuff like that. They like to go on a scavenger hunt for like discounts and stuff like that. But what did I never experienced before with Costco because Walmart trying to go to Japan. And they did it couldn't offer anything that Japanese people were interested in. No locally sourced food or discounts are everywhere. They're just like, man, like, I'm not gonna buy here. But Costco was like, so amazing because they, they offered buying things in bulk. And they've never seen like anything like buying in bulk, because they're like, this is such an amazing shopping experience. And they're offering something which is like, you know, like 50 balls of champagne or like, you know, 30 bags of like TP and somebody that and they're just like, oh my god, I'm just like,

Michael Maher  35:32

I want to buy all the bulk stuff.

Jana Krekic  35:34

Everything. I'm like be obsessed by Costco and Costco does dazing amazingly well in Japan, because they offer them a unique shopping experience they have never seen before.

Michael Maher  35:45

People, it is so important to know your audience and to make sure that you're speaking to them, and also to Jana's point, you know, what works well in the US may not work, it could work well in another country, but it's not guaranteed to work in another country. So do some research and hire someone like YLT Translations to help you translate. I know we've you know, we've worked with you before transparently. And I enjoyed our experience with you, and we'll you know, we'll continue to do work with you. But you know, hire someone that knows what they're talking about. And that, and that's going to be honest with you. There's nothing worse than a bunch of Yes, men or women that just say, oh, yeah, great ideas, great ideas, great ideas. I want people on my team to disagree with me if they have a reason to disagree with me and tell me why because I don't care about being the one that comes up with the right decision or the right direction. I just want to make sure we we get there.

Jana Krekic  36:41

Yeah, absolutely agree. It's like, there's nothing worse than having like a CEO that it's like, I don't know, like, you know, I don't know how to improve this process. I think it's okay. I don't know, you know, like, when you don't have like a decision-makers on your team. It's so bad because, like, that's why you're hard to delegate some of the things that you do, like I have a team of 80 people right now and I cannot make all the decisions. I need people who are going to be decision-makers, you know, is you know, for me, and they will make mistakes and they will screw up. But at least they would you know, they will be trying you know, so that's also an effort is also a good thing.

Michael Maher  37:21

Yes, and apparently my dogs barking at someone in the background. I don't know she she every time she gets freaked out she gets a little Mohawk and it stands up on the back of her neck. Oh my god. Like so. Yeah. Tell, I know. Yes. Sort of. Jana tell people where they can find you if they want to get in touch with you in a bookstore, in a Starbucks in Australia? Probably not. Where can people get a hold of you on the internet? Or the interwebs? or wherever?

Jana Krekic  37:48

Sure. Well, I'm always on LinkedIn and Facebook. So I'm basically online. I love hanging out over there. Even though they say now that Facebook is for old people. I'm not that old. Still there? Yeah. No, not at all. Instagram, I think like all social media. And you can like if you have any questions or if you want, like any advice on like, you know, international marketplaces, but there's like, you know, wonder, you know, holiday sort of like related advice or q4 or basically anything else that we've seen that works or doesn't work. You can shoot me an email at jana@ylt-translations.com

Michael Maher  38:29

Beautiful. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show, Jana. We appreciate it. This has been The Longer Game where we talk about retail and my dog barks at the end of the episode. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for coming again. On here, Jana and for talking to us about tent bikinis and all that great stuff. I think I will never forget this episode for sure.

Jana Krekic  38:49

My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me, Michael.

Michael Maher  38:53

Alright, see you guys.