Ego @ Jon Dot Com

Get ready for the execution: execution of the fundamentals, that is. You want to succeed as a brand? 2 things. One, build a solid foundation and two, make decisions as quickly as possible with enough data. Yeah, it's really that simple.

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Michael Maher  00:00

Welcome, everybody to The Longer Game. This is the podcast where we talk about what we talked about, I should have gone talking about what, but we talked about retail reimagine. We're just keeping it real. We're talking with people in the retail space, that have interesting and unique experiences. And they're able to shed some light on where they think this retail train is going. With me today. I wish I had a drum roll button, but I don't have a drum roll button. So with me today is Jon of ZonGuru, and he is the CEO and co-founder. I was telling him that it seems like a popular title. And Jon, welcome to the show.

Jon Tilley  00:41

What's up, man, good to be here.

Michael Maher  00:43

I love that it is good to be here. I feel good to be seen and to be seeing you. Tell people more about ZonGuru. And what you do?

Jon Tilley  00:53

Yeah, look, you know, ZonGuru has been around for a long time. It's kind of The Longer Game but no, I mean, is, uh, you know, we co-founded launched ZonGuru back in 2016. Essentially, it's a business intelligence software toolset for private label Amazon sellers. So people who create brands selling them on Amazon, specifically, we focus on Amazon as a platform. You know, I think we'll get into my background a little bit, but I think when I launched the software, I was an Amazon seller, myself, I saw them as Amazon sellers selling products on Amazon, I have multiple brands, you know, that concept of, I need to make the right business decisions for my business to scale it. You know, I was an advertising for many years, and that kind of flashing sign of GEICO was in my head, which is garbage in garbage out, right? And you want the opposite, right? You want to have the right intelligence at the right time, in a relevant way, visualized, so you can make quick business decisions and move your business forward. So that you're not making mistakes or a long way, because you have the wrong intelligence. Right? So that was the reason behind creating ZonGuru *inaudible*

Michael Maher  02:11

Do you feel like you were getting garbage from as a salary? Like,

Jon Tilley  02:16

Time, it's time? Yes, I think, you know, the software wasn't, wasn't very, very well developed, there wasn't a lot of, you know, visualization of the right data from the verified source of Amazon through the API's places, a lot of estimations and things that go into there, but having AI around there to really make sure that the guideline was there. All of that wasn't filled in, right. And even today, it's not filled in completely. So, you know, understanding, hey, you know, I mean, I'm making decisions now for something that I'm going to be launching in six months' time, and knowing what to do, how to do it, when to go in. And, and making sure I have the right information now. So that's, does that risk is, is D risks, you know, is important.

Michael Maher  03:07

You're talking about having the right information. And oftentimes, having the right information means that you have to be open to the fact that you what you want, or what you think is right, could actually be wrong. And I ultimately believe that many or maybe all problems between humans, humans, results from pride. And as a founder, as an owner, getting, being right is not what's important. It is about getting it right and doing it correctly. So whether that's you, your co-founder, someone in your team that comes up with the process, or the way to do something, it's about getting it right. I was talking to you about a guest we had on the podcast, earlier, from Chipmonk Baking, talking about how they're just being really nimble. And you said getting rid of ego, as a founder and as someone that wants a company to work, especially a CPG company, because I know you have experience in you know, advertising some of those companies, what is getting rid of ego mean, and how is it applicable?

Jon Tilley  04:14

I have not yet because I've got such a big ego, no I'm kidding.

Michael Maher  04:18

Tell people what the process is like to get there. How many people share during the process? So that's *inaudible*

Jon Tilley  04:24

Just kidding. But, you know, I think it's a really, you know, we all have ego, and a lot of is related to what you said, which is pride, right? Where we're entrepreneurs, especially if we're in the product creation side, whether it's software, whether it's a physical product, there's a brand that comes with that and we're creating a brand and we prideful of that brand. And we want to be the best in the world, right? We and we've got competitors who are doing great in different spaces and you think you can beat them and you can do better than them. And you know, We were just talking a little bit earlier about like, hey, you know, if I'm a FMCG, cookie, I want to be in Whole Foods in Los Angeles, I want to be crushing everyone else.

Michael Maher  05:08

That feels good, that feels good.

Jon Tilley  05:11

It's like, hey, I want to go for that. But you can beat your head against that pole for a long time and not get anyway. Whereas maybe the right option is to go and sell it in a mom and pop store throughout middle of America, in Iowa, and wherever else, right? And that could be certainly the, the be all and end all it could be that or it could be the pathway to get you to wherever you need to be down the road. And we run into this all the time with entrepreneurs and even, you know, sellers on Amazon, and they're trying to make decisions, how do I move forward. And what I say to them is like, you know, you can't be necessarily relying on all those that creativity and flair and that ego and everything that you have there, if you don't have the baseline of data and numbers, right? And that's the discipline of being an entrepreneur is, no matter how good you think you are, if you don't know your numbers, if you don't know how to use Excel, if you don't know how to take a pen and paper and literally jot down your specific numbers based on metrics based on financial metrics, mostly, if you can't put that down in the right way, and really look at that, you're not going to be making the right decisions when it comes to your ego or your creativity, you know, so what I say to entrepreneurs always rely on the numbers, do you know your numbers? Have you sat down? Have you figured out because when someone comes to me, and they say, Hey, I want to do this, or should I do this mock appraisal, you know, shut do this product? I'm not gonna what are your numbers? Let me see your numbers. show me show me that detail. And if and typically, they haven't done this, that work. And we assume that

Michael Maher  06:42

it's like revealing yourself. I mean, like almost burying, being naked and like, oh, well, I don't want to show that part of me. And it's like, Well, why would you worry about that? If you've got things in place, I don't want to get too deep into that innuendo, but you get what I'm saying? It's like, oh, I'm bearing all here because someone asked for my numbers. But that's what it comes down to when it when we talk about brass tacks.

Jon Tilley  07:02

Yeah, it's not even bit and this is very old and showing your numbers. It's like, Have you done the numbers yourself? And the answer is typically, no, I haven't. And that's why they they don't know what decision to make. Right? So I think the, the choice that you make, and it's goes back to why Xanga is why Zanku is around is the choice that you make, you need to have the right data in the right way. So you confidence in a decision, and it makes the decision extremely clear, right? Should I bring up this? Should I stop selling this product? I you know, I really love the brand that I created. It's amazing. And I'm not sure if the numbers should I drop it? I'm like, well, where the numbers? Let's have a look. Yes, drop it tomorrow, you know, move on, you know, so the case in point of saying, hey, the guy sending the cookies in Iowa, he's done his numbers. He knows he's thought about it. He's looked at it. He's like, this isn't really working in LA or wherever it is. What? What's the business decision? Or the question I need to ask? So I can move this business forward? Hey, what about these other markets? Okay, great. Let's look at the numbers. Wow, look at this huge opportunity. This is where we go, you know, so it's critical and we do it every day in that's what I love about SAS and technology that I'm in is that it covers every aspect of business, you know, you can run a SAS businesses, everything from marketing, to, to retention to onboarding, to customer success to scaling. But everything is driven by numbers. And if you can take your overall vision, and then work that back into numbers that you need to focus on right now today, that, you know, if you get those rights can scale your business, then then you're moving forward in a disciplined, entrepreneurial way. And it sucks having to always know the numbers, but you have to, you know, and then yeah, if you got all the numbers, you can have all the ego you want, because it's gonna work, but it's,

Michael Maher  08:51

Not gonna back you up. Numbers don't lie. Numbers, don't care about your feelings or facts, whatever, don't care about your feelings. Now, what's even more interesting, especially when you start to get into data and numbers in like case studies or scientific case studies. You think data is data, and then people start to flip that data and turn that data into something that favors what they're going for. And a good example of this is me personally, if I'm measuring out food, because I'm wanting to be precise, and I know Okay, I'm getting two cups of, of cantaloupe. When I measure it out, I know getting exactly two cups of cantaloupe. And if I don't, if I say oh, it's only like one and a half even though it's really two then I'm lying to myself and so I'm gonna pay the piper Pied Piper, or whatever the guy's name is when the time comes. And if I'm estimating, though, and I'm looking at him like that's probably two cups, but I give myself maybe three. I began lying to myself. So go back to the numbers in the data that I'm going to the precise measurement to know I've attended like you said, Do you like this brand? Yes, you like this brand? But should you stop selling it? Yes, the numbers are very clear. So go back to the data to affirm whether you're correct or not, if I'm giving myself three cups of something, I'm really bringing you into my personal life here. But if you if I'm, if I know that I have a tendency to want to fudge the numbers on that a little bit, then I need to go back to the data, if I really care about the end result, if you don't care about the end result and your business and being successful, or ultimately what I would say, profitable is truly success. I mean, there's a lot of cliches about revenue and profitability. And revenue is very sexy. I mean, saying, you know, 789 figure, like, that's very sexy. But how profitable Are you? What are you taking home with you? Is it feeding the lifestyle that you want to live? Is it helping you to have the freedom that that you want to live? I think all those things matter. But yeah, getting back to if you want the end result, to be clear, and to be profitable or successful, you have to look at the numbers.

Jon Tilley  11:01

Yeah, and I mean, I think, just to add to that, I think it's that old saying, which is, what, what's, uh, what's worse than then than a wrong decision is indecision. Right? So I think,

Michael Maher  11:14

Okay, yeah.

Jon Tilley  11:14

That's the other critical piece of, of being an entrepreneur is, is, and I don't know why I say entrepreneur, weird. It's part of the accent, but,

Michael Maher  11:23

I like it, man. It's cool, go with it.

Jon Tilley  11:26

You know, it is? You know, do the best you can, you know, and there's a lot that goes into do the best you can in terms of numbers and quantifying, but at the end of the day, you have to make make a decision, right. And indecision is far worse. I think I was at my VC partners. The other day, and you know, it was it's like a plaque on the wall, which is like, don't you know, don't be the indecisive squirrel. You know, it's a squirrel, who was his it was his tating squirrel, you know, and it's like this picture of a squashed squirrel. Like on a road. Yeah, the guy is headed and got squashed. And so, you know, at the end of the day, that's my co-founder. We were talking about that a little bit earlier, Adam Hudson, and why do we work well together? I mean, he's just the mother of all entrepreneurs, because he can understand trends. But when he gets a picture in his head, he just executes like a demon. And, that's one of his superpowers where we,

Michael Maher  12:24

That's what would I expect a demon to do too is to execute.

Jon Tilley  12:26

Yeah, exactly.

Michael Maher  12:27

Maybe physically. But that's where the devil is in the details of execution. Being successful on Amazon, we both work with Amazon sellers, being successful on Amazon, it's really simple. From a high level strategy point, get your real estate looking good, and send traffic to it, your product listing advertising boom, that's pretty much the strategy. But when you get down to actually executing, are you making the decisions that you need to along the way, I think a lot of what you do in business is experimentation. So you're experimenting, you're taking a risk and saying this may not work out, if it doesn't work out, I'm still going to be okay. And we're going to keep going because we're going to learn from that mistake, or, I mean, you could make a big mistake and shut your company down. But you have to be willing to step out there and take the risk and take the shot. Otherwise, you're you're not going to get anything you're going to be squashed in the road. Like,

Jon Tilley  13:15

Yeah. Even met, add more thought to that. It's, it's executing fast. But to like, your concept is executing fast with a longer game vision in mind, right? And I think, right, people who fail on Amazon, it time and time it happens again, it's the people who like I'm executing fast, but it's like, I'm just, I'm just making a decision for the easy way out. Oh, well, this is a trendy product. Okay, well, let's just get into this because, you know, it's the trendy thing right now. Or, let me just do it this product and this, you know, do too much differentiation, because I just want to get it live and let me just tested with this product, you know, instead of making the hard decisions, hey, yes, I need to get in and do some research or not. Okay, execute on that. It's research, connect with customers spend some money, understanding what their what they want. Great, I've got that. Okay, now I need to execute on differentiating the product. How should I do that? How do I connect with the right manufacturer? It's execute like a mother to get that right. You know, those are the people who make the right decisions, right? What they need to execute fast on are the ones that are successful. The ones that fail are the ones that try and execute quickly, but they're doing an all the easy ways up, you know, and then they just fail. So you've got to have that longer-term vision in mind, and then execute quickly to get.

Michael Maher  14:30

Let's talk about a practical example of what an easy way out would look like because I think we, I love, you know, waxing poetic or talking philosophical, but what's an app like an example maybe that you've experienced of someone wanting to take an easy way out? And what did that look like?

Jon Tilley  14:49

I think I think a typical one, if we're talking about people who are just starting to launch on Amazon, I think, I think sure, you know, the usual vision that we that we direct to people on is to say, okay, you know, use the data come up with what you think is a great niche, but then truly spend some time thinking about how you could differentiate that product. With the caveat of it being commercially viable, right? Because you don't want to over capitalize on differentiation. So that's a really tricky thing to get right? You know. And typically, they kind of hammer their head against the wall, and they kind of go through this whole process, and they, they eventually get a little frustrated, and they're like, You know what, I'm just gonna go with this one product, I just want to get live on Amazon, and I'm just gonna start selling this, you know, it is, yeah, that's an easy, easy way out. And yes, there's, there are benefits to get of getting that momentum and getting on Amazon and learning that way. But that's also that's time that you could have been spent building the thing that you should be building, right. So that's a kind of a way of easy way out, or, you know, someone says, Hey, you know, this is a trendy thing, you know, jump on this, and they haven't really thought about the long term vision of their product, and they jump in there. And, you know, their margins get eaten, and they die. The other one, which is, which is a really important one is this idea of your starting, where's the best place to start your eCommerce business, Amazon, great, if you're going into it just thinking, hey, I'm just creating a product and selling on Amazon, you're just creating a product, it's gonna die, your wives are gonna get you in a way,

Michael Maher  16:27

You're gonna figure people.

Jon Tilley  16:28

Yes, dream bigger, and you have to have a plan and a vision beyond Amazon. And it's the people who have those. That is not easy. You know, it's like, okay, you know, I have to think about my Shopify my brand, you know, how do I get traffic to that? How do I start collecting, you know, my customers information, so I can create a connection with them? How do I start to build these? How do I, you know, how do I lay on this on top of this business of Amazon, those are the people who are not going the easy way out. And, you know, creating a brand that's that it's going to be hard in the beginning. And it's going to probably into profits in the beginning, but it's going to set you up for the future. So you know that those, those are very easy examples. I think of what people get wrong.

Michael Maher  17:08

That was super practical. And I really appreciate that because I think people will walk away from this saying, Hey, here's a scenario that I may have even gone through. How can I play this what I'm going through now, two things. One is how many people are asking you if selling puppets is a good thing to get into right now?

Jon Tilley  17:27

I know. Oh, just *inaudible*

Michael Maher  17:29

fidget boys.

Jon Tilley  17:29

Yeah

Michael Maher  17:30

 Yep.

Jon Tilley  17:32

I mean, it was a fidget spinner. Knots pop its, right?

Michael Maher  17:35

Yep. Pop its dimples. I've, my eight-year-old is obsessed.

Jon Tilley  17:39

If, yeah, my, my, my 17-month-old has just got one I just actually bought some the other day not even knowing what it was. So there you go. Hopefully, if someone's gonna be asking their questions, they get screened. And then it would get to me because I'll guide them for a while. But yeah, no, look, you know, I think this is the important piece, right? Which is where data, we're giving you all of these data points to say, Hey, what are the right kind of niches? How should you approach going to Amazon? That's 50% of the equation. The other 50% Is your business savviness your business smarts? And it's honestly, very, very closely related to your values, you know, do you? Are you looking for a quick way out? You know, are you looking to hack it on Amazon, but I can't tactics, you know, you NASA and you know, this space in the world for the hustlers. That's, that's cool. But, you know, I think that the right approach to Amazon is, you know, how do I use this amazing opportunity, and literally is amazing to be able to launch a product, that is world-class, it could come can compete against the biggest brands in the world, that I can grow in over a two to three-year process, I can start with something that maybe cost me $50,000 upfront, and I can build it into seven, eight-figure business and exit and literally have that and that opportunity is there. It's about, it's about, you know, asking the right questions, having the right mentality, educating yourself on how to grow a proper brand. You know, thinking why not, you know, thinking about brands beyond Amazon that you can compete against using that building, it's building a moat around your business, layering on SOPs, using a discipline of data, and having that discipline to move your business forward. And then, and then working towards the vision of an exit. Which, you know, right now, shed if you can get 50% of that, right. There's, there's I think it's $3 billion in debt financing across 20 different aggregators that just want to buy your business right now. So it's,

Michael Maher  19:47

It's hot *inaudible* right now.

Jon Tilley  19:49

Yeah.

Michael Maher  19:50

One of the things that I like that you said, and I think is applicable for any brand, any brand right now, if it's a big CPG company. The Kimberly Clark's, the Johnson and Johnson's, etc, of the world. Or if it's a smaller brand, like Chipmonk Baking, they and by smaller, you know, we're talking about smaller revenue in a way shape or form doesn't mean smaller from a product or an impact standpoint. But Amazon is a necessary channel to be on. I think, Jon, you and I would probably both agree with that. But it is only one channel. And while I'm focused on servicing Amazon, while you know your SaaS product is focused on Amazon, you recognize that it has to be multiple channels, because the retail space is so fractured right now, it's so split up, you have to be in the spots where your brand is going to sell. So if it's being a cookie company, that's first to market in the Keto market out in Iowa, and you're getting in the natural stores and community of 510 1000, you've now got repeat buyers that love your products, and they're going to be more loyal to your product potentially, than other products going in. And it's not as sexy as the whole foods. But maybe that leads to getting into Whole Foods, because now you've got brand weight people are like, Hey, where's this product? Where's this product? Where's this product? So it, it can you can get into some of those, you know, more sexy places. But you have to play The Longer Game. I did such a great job setting that up, I just want to promise. But in all seriousness, you have to have a bigger vision. But you have to be in multiple channels too, because Amazon is volatile, Amazon can shut your business down at any point. And it's incumbent upon you to prove that they should open it back up. And I had Chris McCabe on the show his, you know, episode was really enlightening to me, we've dealt with my I've dealt with suspensions, I've dealt with product, suppressions, things like that. But the people that are at Amazon that are handling the seller performance account health questions and issues, they're seen as protecting Amazon. So if they flag something, they kind of get a pat on the back for that. And then it's, it's on you to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that, you know, you're not going to screw them over when they turn your account back on. So you have to make sure your eggs are not all in one basket. Because they could get crushed very easily. And then I mean, I know people whose accounts were shut down, and they had, you know, 4050 grand sitting in there. And it's like, where's my next paycheck coming from? I don't know.

Jon Tilley  22:35

Yeah, absolutely. I agree with you. And I think it's a de-risking. Yeah, project, right. And it's a scaling and a de-risking project. But I think the important thing there is to understand that you have to have a vision for all of these channels, right? But, and have that vision in your head, but you need to start doing the fundamentals right in order to get there. So it's not the focus on Hey, to, to have this massive business, I need to be in all these channels. So let's start there. It's like, what do I need to get right now? And how do I lay these in the right order, and in the right velocity, to be able to get to that, and that is, you know, probably a two-year process, right? And

Michael Maher  23:22

You have the patience to wait out that two-year process, Amazon's a great first step. And it can give you quick proof of concept. And you can turn over capital a lot quicker. But then yeah, what's beyond that?

Jon Tilley  23:35

Yeah, and I think, you know, people should absolutely have the patience for two years, I mean, two years or five years, you know, to get there, but, you know, the guy with the cookie, who thought he was going to create this huge, you know, eight-figure business by going to all these channels around the US and different, you know, eCommerce and all that kind of stuff, if he's if he's just trying to do that. And he's just trying to figure out his marketing plan to get all that in. And he's not really thinking about the product as much, he's probably gonna be the one that fails, versus or, you know, isn't solid versus the guy who's like, Damn, I've got a passion for this cookie, I'm really got a passion for this cookie. And I've figured out this amazing cookie, and like, everyone in these little mom and pop IOI stores want reorders. And I haven't figured out how to you know, distribute that yet. But I'm just really going after this. And I'm getting this right, and then I'm going to layer on, hey, we're going to extend to this date, and then I'm going to layer on this and that you know, and they figure out those steps as they go. You know, those are the ones who are going to probably be extremely successful down the road and everyone is looking to find those amazing products like at the end of the day. There's so many distribution networks and things out there and help you can get but if you don't get the fundamental rights of the product, you're not going to be successful. So I guess my preaching there is don't rush that initial step of like, you have this goal. that opportunity. And it's, it's, it's that one little opportunity in this whole two to five-year process that you're doing to get your product absolutely right by envisioning what it is having a passion for it speaking to customers, getting the research done, figuring out how you can, truly making amazing product and then launching their product and then not forgetting to continue to reiterate and improve and innovate on their product. And that's how you're going to really grow your your brand and your and your product is upfront research and reiteration, innovation, improvement as you go.

Michael Maher  25:38

We're talking about building a solid foundation versus building your house on solid ground versus building it in the sand. If you get too anxious, and you need to, you need to just get on Amazon. And trust me I understand. Well, I mean, you don't have to trust me you can you don't have to take my word for it. That's fine. But you know, I get the desire to get out there and just make something happen and figure things out. If you start down a road, and you're not really passionate about it, how much adversity can you handle? What is your EQ or adversity quotient? A lot of people know about IQ. A lot of people know about EQ, now motional intelligence, emotional quotient, but adversity quotient, how much can you handle that's thrown at you. And if you're going down a road that you didn't do your research on, and you're not really truly passionate about, you might get, you know, a year and a half into the journey, but you might fail and stop. I think ultimate failure is just stopping. And sometimes there are things that I failed at. And I said, Okay, I am going to stop this because I need to put my focus on something else. And I had that happened in my business. It was very, very product-driven. And then it started to fail. And I said, Okay, I have to say no to this to say yes to something else. And saying no, I think can be just as powerful as saying yes. But you have to if you just stop and say okay, well, that's it, boom, you know, closing the doors. But if you just spend a little more time in the beginning, it wasn't a market thing. It was a if you'd spend time in the beginning, really focusing on what you're passionate about, and what you would have had, you know, the endurance, you would have to take the machete into the forest and knock down the trees once you start getting really thick. How much can you take and if your adversity quotient is low, because you didn't really put in the time in the numbers. I think you're you're setting yourself up to fail as opposed to laying the groundwork so that you can get out and execute and and build upon that solid base.

Jon Tilley  27:43

Yeah, I mean, I think that this reminds me of Seth Golden's book, the dip, right, which I think anybody who's starting this journey should read. And it's that,

Michael Maher  27:54

I was actually mentioning Purple Cow to someone else recently.

Jon Tilley  27:57

Yeah,

Michael Maher  27:57

About standing out and being the Purple Cow.

Jon Tilley  28:00

Yeah. And his book that the depth is, is kind of explaining what you were just talking about, which is, you know, you have to if you're going to go in, there's going to be the struggle, where you're going to dip for a while and you're going to have to fight you're gonna have to fight. But if you aren't going into that with the tenacity to be the best. You know, it's not even worth necessarily getting into it. Or if you're in and you're not feeling at the best get out early, because there's a road of the dip ahead. But if you can fight through that, and always have that ability to try and be in that top 1%, you're going to come out of the dip on the other side, leaving your competition in the wake. And you're going to that's what you scale, right? So understand that you're going into this with a dip ahead of you. But if you go in with your best foot forward and really fight for perfection, you're going to come out on top, but you've got to have that tenacity, right? So,

Michael Maher  28:53

I've yet called the trough of sorrow for an entrepreneur. It's where you get that initial excitement. And it's like, yeah, I got this cool concept. And then hard work, hard work, hard work. And so I mean, I know from my experience, that if you're not ready to handle that, I think that's such smart advice, get out, get out early, and that there's no shame in saying, hey, this isn't for me, it's just saying, Hey, I know that that this is not the right fit. And so I'm gonna pivot and I'm gonna move into something else. But make sure you've got stamina behind that, that trough of sorrow, that dip that you talked about?

Jon Tilley  29:26

Yeah, the worst is obviously if you're in that dip, and you're just like, hey, well, this is tough and everything, and I'm not really executing and I'm just kind of just going through, and I'm just spraying this dip out all the time. And then I exit a year or two later, without making the right kind of decisions. And I've wasted those two years, right. So you've got to understand that when you're in that you're like, Okay, this is the fight is the fight for it. And it's gonna be hard and I've got to execute. And I've just got to keep going and I've got to your work my way out of this. And if I just feel like I'm going to be sitting in mediocrity, then get out now, there's no point you just going to, it's going to be two years and then you can exit and waste two years of your life, you know, so. Yeah, really important thing. Yeah, you know, it's an exciting time for sure. Being a commerce, I think anybody who, who is in a space or, or is thinking about getting into it, you know, getting on your products, that's the true thing that you can truly own is your product. And then there are many, many channels out there that you can explore Amazon, USA, Amazon marketplaces globally. You know, there's this whole idea of the, you know, of Walmart's coming into play, you know, retail, again, you know, there's all of these channels that are there for you to, to explore. But if you can, you know, get your product right. And then and then layer on not go too quick, but layer on and get all those rights. You will scale massively, very quickly. And then get one of these fat egg aggregators to buy you. Yeah.

Michael Maher  31:03

Jon Tilly people. Here's the take, my take away. Don't settle for mediocrity, in any case of the word. Jon, where will people find you? If they want to find you? Is it hanging out with your 18-month-old? Is it playing guitar? Is it a beer in Vegas? Where can people find you if they want to get a hold of you?

Jon Tilley  31:21

You go at Jon.com. No just kidding.

Michael Maher  31:26

You had that? That would be so bald. Oh, man. Okay. *inaudible*

Jon Tilley  31:33

Yeah, not that you can get us at ads on guru. You know, Instagram is great, if you're looking for inspiring ideas for products that was that, okay, that channel is dedicated to that. zonguru.com, our support team or all sellers, multi-brand sellers, you know, that they'll be passionate to help you jump on there. You know, you can hit me up at jon@zonguru.com. No H, and, you know, wherever, you know, you can find us any handle. Again, even our blog is has got a lot of information about, you know, the current state of Amazon, how to build a business, how to scale a business, all of those things. So, we're definitely passionate about the space, and we want to help you so you know, it's a good place to start. And then and then definitely, we're helping you to think about growing beyond Amazon as well, because that's, that's critical.

Michael Maher  32:27

If you want to be successful people, you got to play The Longer Game and Jon is somebody that is playing The Longer Game so reach out to him. If you're interested in starting a business and you know, get connected with ZonGuru and do the research that you need to do. Longergame's all about retail, reimagined, talking about the Future Omni channels, the future people. If you are in thinking of only staying in one channel, you need to rethink that. If you're in multiple channels, maybe you're overextending yourself, focus on the channels where you're going to get the most return and where you really feel like you are going to succeed as a brand and I always talk about Amazon a lot because 54% of people are going there just to do product research so you got to be where your consumers are. That's it quick and The Longer Game. We did it. Nice work Jon.

Jon Tilley  33:14

Alright, thanks.

Michael Maher  33:16

Cheers.