International Expansion and Its Trials
Moving your business international will open you up to a whole new set of customers you never knew you had. It ain't so easy though. Customs, exchange rates, laws & regulations, consumer demands regionally; it all can be a barrier. Take the time to research where you're going and plan ahead. Find great partners that will help you through the process. Here we go…
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Michael Maher 0:01
All right, everybody. Welcome to The Longer Game. I have my guest Ryan Cramer here. Ryan is a man of many talents. Probably has lots of talents that I don't even know about. But currently, he is the partnership manager at Ping Pong payments. Did I get that right?
Ryan Cramer 0:18
That's correct. It's one of the many hats I wear. *Laugh*
Michael Maher 0:21
What other hats do you wear, like Seattle Seahawks? Marvel Comics?
Ryan Cramer 0:25
Uh, the ones I have that are not work-related would be. I'm a big fan of the Chicago Cubs. And...
Michael Maher 0:34
Okay.
Ryan Cramer 0:34
so those hats I have is an Adidas hat, which is more like a sweat-wicking hat like you can see me right now. I'm like, working all day in the sun. It's so hot.
Michael Maher 0:43
Do you have windows going directly into your I think?
Ryan Cramer 0:46
I do, this is the thing about working from home full time you get a little antsy and you're like, I don't like what I stare at all day. So I'm gonna just like, stare outside. So I literally changed my whole office around. So be able to stare outside, have natural light come in.
Michael Maher 0:59
So I have natural lighting right here. But right about 5, 6, 7, depending upon the time of year, I have like light right my eyes. So if I'm having a call at that time, it's I probably should reschedule but
Ryan Cramer 1:10
Right. Well, that's also good to know, if you're a listener. And you are you can see Michael, if you are watching him, it's a good reminder, right that if if I see my son coming home from school on bus, I'm like, Oh, well, it's, it's well, in the afternoon right now, maybe I should like start to wrap things up and spend time with family. But other than that, yeah, it's other hats, I would say yeah, I think that's the many hats I wear. Of course, everything that they asked me to do podcast host, webinar person, you know, close deals, all that fun stuff. It's almost like the become a Swiss Army Knife of your company. Because as you know, as an industry where you may not have many people, you might have a lot of people who can pull from different aspects of their background. But then you can apply that to cool and creative natures for your business, whenever needed.
Michael Maher 1:58
The industry that you know, I predominantly come from, the Amazon service industry, it's a really holistic system. So everything is integrated into one space. To really manage and grow a business there, you have to have, I wouldn't say be a jack of all trades, master of none. But you typically have to have a wide array of knowledge that you can bring together. Because there's so many different components. So also in a small business, wearing a lot of hats, if you're a founder out there, you could be handling sales and marketing for your team. Or you could be handling sales and content and someone else is handling marketing and someone handles distribution, whatever the case might be so used to wearing a lot of hats.
Ryan Cramer 2:38
Absolutely. Well, and that's the thing, right is like people are continuing to grow but innovating and trying to push the boundaries, especially with any sort of growth if they can't do it by themselves, or they have to do it by themselves. That's the time aspect of the business you have to kind of be entrepreneur, you have to be a little bit of everything. Payroll, you have to be innovator, you have to be logistics and customer service used to be all those things.
Michael Maher 3:02
What happens if you get to a place and you're like, I know nothing about this, then what do you do?
Ryan Cramer 3:07
I am depending on the situation, I am one person who will admit that I do not know but I will find out or I will ask. I don't I don't like it when people just blow smoke, you know, whenever
Michael Maher 3:22
on the cover up, but yeah, ***
Ryan Cramer 3:23
Right. I mean, but to be, but to be honest, like to in order, if someone's asking you that question do either one, like they want the most honest feedback, or they want an actual answer. It's not something that you can just make up. And if you make it up, they're going to ask why. And it gets tricky, but that's kind of the mentality idea. If I don't know anything, I will let you know how I will find out for you. If that makes sense.
Michael Maher 3:48
Yeah. So to frame this conversation, The Longer Game is all about retail reimagined. We're literally trying to look into the future of what retail will look like. So that means a brick and mortar. That means e-commerce, Amazon, specifically other marketplaces, there are a lot of channels out there. And that's one of the things that Ryan's company PingPong Payments actually helps, say that five times fast. They help with interactions with different marketplaces with different countries making sure you get the best exchange rate for your money. And so that's something that's really integral to all these different marketplaces. But also expanding internationally is another place where a lot of brands are going they maybe feel like they've maxed out growth on the US marketplace, or they're just wanting to get involved in other marketplaces sooner than everyone else. Amazon US, last I checked, did about 147 billion in retail sales. I think it was in 2020. The next closest marketplace behind that was Germany at about 27 billion. So I mean, it's not small, a small number in Germany, but there's a big gap there. UK, Japan, other other marketplaces, internationally are coming behind that. And getting people interested in growing. I know in my agency, we've launched someone in Singapore, we're looking at launching people in Australia. And it really just is where does the product make sense? There are so many marketplaces in Europe as well. I don't know how much you integrate with those. But so many marketplaces in Europe that are very, very specific, like people go to bowl.com for some reason. There's a lot of different marketplaces that people will be on just for specific items like fashion, whatever the case might be, what do you know about that? And I think what part of what I wanted to talk with you about is expanding internationally. That's something that has become the internet has made a lot of things more accessible, expanding internationally, is more accessible now. However, you still have to go through customs, you still have to deal with the rules and laws of the country, you're going into even Canada into the US a lot of dietary differences between the FDA and whatever the Canada's national governing body over food and drugs are. Maybe it's the CDA. I don't know. But talk to me about international marketplaces, and what that landscape looks like. And it's become more accessible, but you still have barriers to entry.
Ryan Cramer 6:16
Yeah, so setting the table. I love those. I love that question. And this podcast is really cool and unique. If one of the first times talking about this, we can kind of get predictive and we can kind of throw stuff out there, right? We've seen the industry grow and so much in this landscape in the ways that I would have never thought before right. My background entails more direct to consumer back in 2014 and 15. It was or a hole working for a wholesaler and then finding ways to get our products in the hands of consumer without obviously directly selling to another business. And it was so
Michael Maher 6:51
That was probably brand new for that business used to going B2B. Now trying to direct it.
Ryan Cramer 6:56
Yeah, so there were home and garden company. Number one flag retailer in a garden flags, garden stands. Really? Probably 10,000 I think 10,000 SKUS annually that they would come out like
Michael Maher 7:08
Like flags of gnomes?
Ryan Cramer 7:10
Yes. And gnomes. Yes. So we're, yeah, the company was called Ever is called it's still still around, hasn't gone anywhere. It's Evergreen Enterprises out of Richmond, Virginia, I have learned so much from our company, going directly and seeing the transition from selling directly to as a wholesale business manufacturing in China, and then distributing through Richmond, Virginia, which is where we were based out of two different you know, there was salespeople that are going around to different retail locations, they were selling out of catalogs that evolved over to digital catalogs that revolve to search showrooms, placing orders digitally on websites and whatnot. So I got to see that evolved on the B2B side, but also on the direct to consumer in conjunction selling under different brands on Amazon to different retail locations or I should say marketplaces like Wayfarer, Zulily, QVC. There's so many different ways that I would have to look at it and say I was not part of all of those but I was I could look at it and see oh my gosh, there's so many different opportunities right. It's almost like..***
Michael Maher 8:12
QVC is still a really big channel. I mean, I don't know how much revenue they do.
Ryan Cramer 8:12
QVC makes a lot
Michael Maher 8:15
but it's so big.
Ryan Cramer 8:17
Shockingly and not shouldn't be surprisingly lots. I don't have a number to tell you it's not Amazon numbers but think about this, it's a lot of people still are have market share in television, they have market share online, they still do a lot online but it's like those quick hit digital sales are you know, deals and whatnot like now it's only like three payments of this and you know, it's it feels it feels comical in that regards, but people they buy there. Otherwise, you got others want was wanting to be around. But has as the industry has evolved more into private label, more people can just surpass everything and kind of directly work for manufacturer or distributor and build their own brand. It's really cool to see it grow. Now, I think that the space where we've been in for lack of COVID and pandemic is going on right now. It's sped up a lot of where the trajectory of this business is going right? Retail is never going away. I don't think it will ever die out. And I would assume you would agree with.
Michael Maher 9:20
I'm very much in agreement of that. And even though I say I'm in agreement with that, because ecommerce has grown a lot, but people want a tactile experience, they still want to try things on sometimes they want to feel the item. That's why when you put a 360 image on a can of a bug spray on Amazon and increases the conversion rate by 10%. I think that's telling you that.
Ryan Cramer 9:42
Right. Well and also like people need to know what it looks and feels like again, you're talking about soft goods you need to know that it's going to fit here. I'm not just Lee like small or, large V or something like that, where you feel like very self conscious about this. When I shop online that I know for a fact that's how I feel. I'm like what if I buy this, it doesn't fit right? Of course, I can't determine.. ***
Michael Maher 10:02
Many companies, especially close, they have different sizes, I might get a large in one brand, and an XL and another brand. It's hard to know because nothing's standardized there.
Ryan Cramer 10:12
Exactly. And that's, that's the, that's what it's in the back of every person's mind. Now, if you go to the same brand over and over customer loyalty, you know, for a fact that, Oh, of course, like, I know, it's going to feel this way. And e-commerce has gotten better. Like this is the dimensions of what largest to me that you know, that's neither here nor there. That's really still hard to feel like what it actually sits on your body, how it feels and makes you feel
Michael Maher 10:34
Sure. like, we'll give you the return label inside of there.
Ryan Cramer 10:38
Oh, yeah.
Michael Maher 10:38
An example was to just send it right back ***
Ryan Cramer 10:39
I'm a big fan of Stitch Fix. They did a good job. Like I actually it's pretty in depth. I use their service just to try it out. My wife loved it.
Michael Maher 10:44
I love them. Know I love that they like “hey, Ryan, I'm really excited. Yeah, I think you're gonna love this.” My wife did one for my daughter, because they have a kids box. And they sent 10 items. And it was actually cheaper just to buy all of them because my daughter liked them.
Ryan Cramer 11:03
That's how they do it.
Michael Maher 11:04
Right, of course. And in the in the letter, it's adapting. We were really excited about your trip to Charleston, because that's what my wife put in there. Someone, one of her friends, and she's eight, complimented and said, "I love your shirts ,'' "Oh, my designer picked it out."
Ryan Cramer 11:19
*Laughs* Isn't that funny how kids can like oh, yeah, my personal designer left me
Michael Maher 11:22
Oh, I mean, they just tell him to ***
Ryan Cramer 11:23
get them on the beach with this. Exactly. Well, and like as we didn't have that, as kids like, there was in that sense of, you would say like, did you see that commercial of that toy? And that's what a lot of us were like, Oh, yeah, yeah, I have to have that. And like, we all had the same toys, or whatnot. But now *inaudible*
Michael Maher 11:26
I just went to JC Penney. And I'd try and close in your pants like, this is what we're getting.
Ryan Cramer 11:42
Yeah. And that's what you're getting. But I mean, now it's easy to share, and see what's trending, right. Like as kids we didn't know, had no idea. There's only one source television, or radio or whatever that might be. Now there's social media, there's all these different ways to access outside trends and whatnot, it's a little hard to navigate. But I guess back to your, I guess back to the original point of like, expansion, right, we've expanded our offering in general, was retail now going global, where you can have small and medium sized businesses, their products, who only used to be able to sell it in the Midwest, for example.
Michael Maher 12:18
Great.
Ryan Cramer 12:18
Or you and I are to now on the other side of the world at a snap of a finger. In theory, you. That's unbelievable. And that's transformed over the last, you know, 15 or so years. But most recently, just this, this rocket ship, if you will, and growth passport notice that we have had with COVID in supply chain problems and all these different things, or you're almost forced to find different ways to spend your money and to continue on with life. That's the nuances that we've seen how fast forwarded you've seen e commerce become what retail is, and both have its basis. And people understand, hey, I can not just buy tchotchke gifts, stuff online. I can now buy groceries, I can buy services, I can telehealth, I can do all these different, fast, fascinating things.And that was where
Michael Maher 13:11
All of this going around for a long time. But the pandemic again, just accelerated that growth. So I mean, I was meeting my psychiatrist who I meet with regularly because I deal with depression anxiety. Let's just be honest about that people. It's under control now. So I'm good. Don't worry about me. But I just would meet with him regularly instead of having to go to his office 30 minutes away. To meet with him was really easy, and it saved the commute time. I think that's pretty, pretty revolutionary. But when we talk about expanding internationally, it is much easier. I think the flip side is I have a friend who trademarked the term entrepreneur porn. I don't know if you've ever heard me say that, or anybody else say that. Entrepreneur porn is the guy in the nice suit, who is telling people he charges $10,000 an hour and has a nice car. He rented this Lamborghini, but he's pretending it's his. He's got the women in the house. I won't name names. But uh, you know, you see commercials on YouTube of look at this man, this is my house. This is so cool. Everything's great. I'm an entrepreneur. I don't know any entrepreneurs that live like that. And if they do, they're living large for a very short time, or they're renting everything. It's hard work to grow and build a business. And so the flip side of that is yes, it's much easier. And that's kind of the exciting part because you can expand anywhere, but there are a lot of difficulties even just going from US, from the United States to Canada, let's say on Amazon. There are things that are required there that most people don't know. We know the Food and Drug Administration here. We know that there's customs, we know that there's certain regulations when it comes to dietary supplements, different products, things like that. We know what's illegal and legal. When you go over to Canada, what are some of the difficulties that you see that brands are facing that maybe are not as noticeable. We know you're gonna have to collect some kind of sales tax in Europe or in the UK, it's usually called VAT tax. And I think it's similar in other places, but talk up, do you know a lot of those issues? And if so, talk about some of those issues that people are facing that when someone comes to the table, they need to have prepared to be ready?
Ryan Cramer 15:24
Yeah, good question. So Canada, specifically? Tricky, because I mean, I won't say tricky, it will trip you up because of number one thing I hear all the time, VAT and GST. It's a sales tax, it's a different sort of entity that Amazon will collect for you, but you have to pay on your own. So you have to go and pay the authorities, once every quarter. I've heard as often as once a month, but I believe it's once a quarter if I'm not mistaken. I've seen people actually get tripped up because they haven't, for lack of a better, it's like not paying your taxes, right? Like it'll just accrue over time. You can not file it for a long time. And then all of a sudden, they're like, well, we're still waiting on what you paid, or you didn't pay us three years ago, that can happen, especially in an age where people are trying to exit their businesses. A lot of them are like, do I have to make up that difference? And I said, Yes, in probably a penalty, I'm assuming it's coming. But talk to your tax authority or talk to your accountants, because they're gonna be the ones that are gonna have to figure out those numbers.
Michael Maher 16:26
I can only advise you on anything tax related. ***
Ryan Cramer 16:28
I personally, I'm not a lawyer, I cannot attach or legally advise you to do anything but pay your pay your taxes
Michael Maher 16:35
Right
Ryan Cramer 16:36
But like you were, you're bound to do that. And that's different. I think also, what's different for lots of people is understanding what you start to dip your toe into localization. And what I mean by that is translations. Because up there you have French, you have in Quebec, specifically, you have to start to understand, maybe not everyone speaks their first language as English, you have to maybe build a different listing or you have to have that listing be spoken to in French, and you have to be cognizant of some words may not translate very well, or your product may not translate well into a language or
Michael Maher 17:12
localization is key.
Ryan Cramer 17:13
images localization.***
Michael Maher 17:14
With the translation. Yeah, that's what I've heard
Ryan Cramer 17:17
It's the first step to really immersing yourself in the next culture. Which again, Canada has its own culture, it's not the exact same as the United States. A lot of people like to think it is, but it's not the same. And then
Michael Maher 17:29
That's why Amazon failed in China. And why they pulled out because TMall and Taobao, their native, they get Chinese culture, Amazon didn't. And so they bought out many years ago. I mean, that's why I think I mean, they dominate so much.
Ryan Cramer 17:42
Exactly. I mean, if you don't understand your customer, they'll see right through, it's just like, if they see a listing, if a customer sees the listing, and they know, you can see right through the Bs, if you're looking at a product answer, when you receive a package, you don't like, oh, like it's completely, not grammatically correct. It's all these things, it goes against US, whatever that might be. You're like, this doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel like they put the money effort and time you lose out on a consistent customer. Even before purchase, though, you're looking at translations images, what you're really trying to feature, what's currently drawing to be? What's going to draw in people is a family atmosphere. Is it a? Is it having your lifestyle images? Is it having someone look differently? Like, you know, skin? Or is it more women focused, or men focused where you have to look,
Michael Maher 18:32
That was a great point. If you're sending something to, so Singapore is English speaking. So that was a natural marketplace for us to send any of our current clients in the US too. But if all your models are white people, they're not Asian. I mean, Singapore is pretty eclectic, I think in terms of, you know, ethnicities, but yeah, that makes a lot of sense. If people, if you go into the UAE, and it's all, you know, black people or white people, whatever the case might be, it's gonna it's gonna look different. So thinking about changing and localizing even imagery is something I haven't thought of until just now. And so I think that's a great point.
Ryan Cramer 19:13
I had this fantastic conversation with the professor from the university.
Michael Maher 19:16
No, you didn't.
Ryan Cramer 19:17
Yeah, that was one. Well, I was like, I can prove it. Come on, you know, me by now I can prove all these things. No, this localization professor, and I asked him verbatim, because he's actually worked with hand. He's gone with many different top 100 businesses around the world. And he's, he's consulted with all these different businesses in terms of localization, what that looks like, what it feels like, how to speak to this audience, and I asked him, what is the number one company that is doing his best right now in terms of localization localizing on? Like a website? He goes IKEA and I thought though, I thought he was joking. Oh, yeah, IKEA the Swedish like company, big deal. But if he went on the website, we went real time. We Went through everything. And it was so specific to the nature of the dialect of your actual language, it differentiates in different parts of the world and they break that down in such a context where it will be the page format will completely change based upon where in the precise measure of the world on what is your language is English in Europe, or English and United States? Is it Arabic is it all these different things and it will change imagery or change language, it will change the look and feel of the page of your product will pop to Okay, what seasonal products are going on Ramadan versus you know, is a Christmas in Ramadan. And then like you have, you know, Yom Kippur and like, all these different like things are going on different parts of the world are more prominent than the will say whitewashed version of what we think in the United States economy of what what's going to draw on people and that I thought was such a good touch on you have to be knowing who your audiences and people ideally.
Michael Maher 21:02
If you want to win internationally
Ryan Cramer 21:04
Well, yeah. And again, if it's brand, if it's, you're gonna mean to product generation of there's lots of competition, but you can stand out amongst a crowd, how are you going to do that? How are you going to differentiate, they're going to look like you quite honestly. But if you can make it feel different. And you know, for a fact that you give consideration to who your customers. The customers, not just I need to, like if I'm selling kids toys, it's not just going to be for that it could be how the parent is reacting. And that imagery like this is going to solve this problem or this is going to make you feel this way for each specific nature of where you're in. So growing internationally, you have to really start to hammer down and hone in on how am I going to speak to this new audience. It might be just a few tweaks here, like it said an image or two, or just wording and verbiage you use, but then also how you want it to feel to that audience. So it's always good to work with someone who knows the local culture. Again, in Canada is a little bit different. I would say the last thing that is somewhat difficult is just like logistics, like it seems it seems so crazy. There's only 30 I want to say 35 million people in Canada's. Feels like there should live land size sizes.***
Michael Maher 22:11
Size of California. It isn't populated.***
Ryan Cramer 22:11
Exactly. Right. It's around that and I again, census worldwide, whatever that might look like. But Canada is is very much spread out. So the nature of you have to start thinking I can't maybe fulfill things third party, I might want to do it in Prime, because otherwise it might take seven days.
Michael Maher 22:14
And it's really expensive to get through the mountains in the cold. It's not It's not cheap.
Ryan Cramer 22:36
Yeah. And that's why people are people limit exposure of selling internationally to specific parts of Canada, because if it's Northern parts of the Yukon, for example, it's really difficult. And it cost prohibitive to send one off items there, or they might have to raise the threshold. So that means that it's just very, you have to start thinking of these nuances to have what that customer looks like. And that's where you have to start getting a little more creative of how, how is my product gonna stand out, and maybe I should look at a different localized marketplace, maybe not Amazon right now, or maybe on Amazon, and I'm going to just be the only person's space to dominate, it just might not have the trailblazing numbers that I might have the United States, but that's okay. Because as you start to grow these pieces, you start to add up 5% of revenue here for 10% revenue. Yes. Or like Canada 5% inn Germany,
Michael Maher 23:29
And getting there early, gets you better placement. And at least from an Amazon perspective, better placement, better indexation on the keywords that you're targeting. And if you can build sales history there, it can cost you it's not guaranteed, but it can cost you less to stay there at least an advertising because you've been there and shown that you can sell.
Ryan Cramer 23:50
Well, yeah. And you're talking about what people are getting priced out of ads nowadays. I have this, I hear this conversation all the time. It's very, very difficult and cost prohibitive for people to mean just sourcing logistics is a nightmare right now but just ad costs are going up across the board in the US. It's not for the lack of, you can't be successful, it's just competition that so stiff. But if you can go to like a Singapore we alluded to you can go in Australia, you can you can get into UAE for example, for pennies on the dollar for certain kinds of products that you might be selling in the United States, you would you just like clean up there, again, may not be to the level and extent that you want or need in the United States. But as an entrepreneur, you're not trying to match apples for apples in different marketplaces. It's not like I'm gonna get 100% here, and then I'm going to double it here and I'm gonna triple it there. That's not how business works in general, you, you get slices of each pie and you put it together and then you that's how you grow as long as there's consistent growth across all channels. You are just making up more of that baseline. Instead of like where you are just one marketplace. So growing internationally, I always tell people, when you're ready to grow internationally, it's on you. There's no number or metric that you should feel responsible to meet or hit, you need to feel comfortable that you have, where you currently start out with, again, selling international, if you're listening to this, and you're in Canada or Germany or wherever Australia, if selling internationally to you is selling in the United States, I get that. But if you're selling in a different marketplace, like I'm selling in Australia, but then I do want to go into the United States. Not many people do that but as you do that, you do that on your own terms. And you feel comfortable. And you know, for a fact that you have those logistics in those localization things ironed out, you have to make sure that you're speaking to that audience. And then also, I would suggest to you that the numbers that you have in your mind, just, I would make sure you what you get. In temporary, though, you don't have the batch, dollar for dollar, again, five here, 10. Here, it's all going to add up over time, and you start to tweak as new things roll out. And it's also to the point you mentioned, there's other marketplaces in like Europe, or in different parts of the world. It matters a lot.
Michael Maher 26:10
There are a lot of marketplaces in there across Europe.
Ryan Cramer 26:13
So in a statistic that was fascinating is that Amazon is not the number one marketplace in Europe. And you're Yeah, that's kind of crazy. But for every country you have that they have this own established dominant marketplace, that they buy things a CD discount for France, you have you know, in Germany, or there's like Lazada in I'm gonna say
Michael Maher 26:35
Lazada's in Philippines and Taiwan. Same as eBay as well.***
Ryan Cramer 26:37
Philippines. Yeah. In fact, I would say, I mean, eBay is actually very prominent in Asia, as well as Australia
Michael Maher 26:47
I heard in Australia. Yeah, about eBay.***
Ryan Cramer 26:49
Yeah, there's, I mean, there's so many different ones that like Mercadolibre, very prominent in Central and South America.
Michael Maher 26:55
Yeah.
Ryan Cramer 26:56
Growth is coming from Amazon, right? Let's not get that wrong, growth is coming as logistics kind of builds out. Excuse me. But understand this, if you look at the roadmap, how Amazon built out its empire, first came logistics, warehousing, and whatnot. And then came the customers, if you will, the sellers, if you and so on.
Michael Maher 27:19
And so build out the infrastructure first, in order to have the clients actually get acquired.
Ryan Cramer 27:26
Excuse me, if you look at the, if you look at one cool thing, I think that most people overlook, if you look at where Amazon, if you're a fantasy football player, if you're not a lot of people, or if you're a sports fan, a lot of people see value by quote unquote, following the money. And what I mean by that is, you're talking about contracts, if I'm a professional sports person, and I'm going to start shelling out all this money for a specific player, follow that person because they see a certain value in what that asset has. Now, if you apply that to entrepreneurship, follow where the growth is happening in terms of logistics, or growth capital. So
Michael Maher 28:05
I like that
Ryan Cramer 28:06
United States, growth of different warehousing for Amazon, pretty consistent wasn't where it was five years ago, but it's what I think 15, 20%, maybe 30%, of capacity of growth, for warehousing, different ones pop up all the time. But there's significant growth happening in Australia, there's lots happening in Ireland delivering like they're building up this logistic system, where Amazon's putting warehousing, you start to think, oh, maybe there's like this one need. Amazon sees growth in these places,
Michael Maher 28:38
Expedited marketing the reasoning behind that.
Ryan Cramer 28:40
Expect a lot to follow behind that because it's the same playbook as what we saw when Amazon built this ecosystem. How can I get that, at the end of the day, is about the customer? How can I get my goods to you the quickest? And that's because of their logistics and supply chain that they built out this beautiful mess that everyone seems to always want to figure out. They're everywhere you can get your products in two hours, you can get it in a day in two days.
Michael Maher 29:05
So that is really what that is what the differentiator was with Amazon. It was logistics like I always tell prospects "Amazon is a really trusted distribution network." That's essentially what they are, yes, they have some of their own private labels. It's a very small percentage of what's selling. But Amazon has built a solid brand. And one of the things that you mentioned when you were talking about that list of things you need to do when you expand internationally. You were mentioning the differentiators and the things that help you to stand out. And that's very much about brand. If your brand is in one country, but you have to localize to another country. That's something that still needs to stay, you still have your brand and stuff like that, the identity maybe purpose but your target might shift a little bit. I mean, there are going to be changes in your audience. And so if you don't, that I guess what I'm getting at is different differentiation doesn't have to be technology, it doesn't have to be some new advanced, the differentiation could be for you as a business, we provide a better service, we have better customer service. And that's why people go to you, hey, we actually localize and we understand your culture. And so we know why these things are more important. So we provide these goods in surplus, and these other ones aren't as aren't as important because they're, they're not needed. So your localization or your differentiator doesn't have to be something technology based. It can just be an application or in service or medium.
Ryan Cramer 30:33
Yeah, absolutely. And think about too, United States gets all of the all the bells and whistles first, like if you're a seller in United States, you're gonna get access to all these fun things like posts, you're going to get things like Vine program, all the other fun, new, trendy stuff that you see around as a seller, those things may not exist in other countries. But sure as hell, if they work in the United States, they'll slowly roll those out to different countries. And as they do, that's when you start to catch up with people's understanding, or you can target based on PPC, you can start to do DSP and different marketplaces, all these different nuances that you can break through here in the United States. They're a couple years, maybe like two or three years behind in different marketplaces around the world. So as consumers start to adopt more of Amazon more, they will roll out those concepts of Hey, audiences is now primed for these kinds of things. It is demanding of us to give more to them because there's more shoppers, you know, we were kind of spoiled, if you will, here in the United States, because we get all these cool new features, you get, you know, Amazon live all this fun stuff as a seller, but as a consumer, it's almost it's almost too easy, right? Like how to consume products. But yeah, those things don't exist worldwide. So if we're stuck here in the United States, you're like, Oh, no, like sales are only going to exist here. There might be for certain products, but internationally, people just haven't adopted the whole wave of the nuances of Amazon. Yeah, that's because the world is a big blue ball. Right? We are only 300 million people here in the United States.
Michael Maher 32:03
I thought it was flat.
Ryan Cramer 32:04
We're so yeah, well, depending on how you are on how you want to argue it. But certainly
Michael Maher 32:09
I'm kidding
Ryan Cramer 32:10
I've been told certainly how I've been told and taught. It's, it's there's lots of people here. And, again, we talked about, there's so many different factors that non people give a lot of credit to. If you buy online, you have to have some sort of virtual way to pay for things, right. So there's a more there's a decent percentage of the world that doesn't have access to a debit card or credit card or any sort of virtual currency
Michael Maher 32:35
Currency account anything like that.***
Ryan Cramer 32:37
Exactly. So that's where you see, like Western Union, like wiring money to different types of entities. You see, solutions like Ping Pong like, or you see five different ways of how is the online ecosystem going to adapt to retail? And we're kind of bringing this full circle is, how do you bring the retail experience online? With simple facts of like how to pay for stuff?
Michael Maher 32:59
Yep.
Ryan Cramer 32:59
My like, our grandparents may not want a credit card, because they maybe need never needed one. But how are they going to buy stuff for convenience of like, I need an extra gift for Jimmy, I can't send them one or go to the post office and buy it in person, send it in the post office and they'll mail it there. Well, now their solutions to do that virtually. But they don't have the ability to like, do take cash or credit like he was asking me if I want cash or credit. Yeah, give me your credit card, or
Michael Maher 33:26
Even they don't get forced all age groups, I don't have numbers on this, but the pandemic force all age groups to utilize ecommerce more, because I mean, force them because there is a virus out there, everyone was told to stay home, they were forced to stay home. And so in order to get groceries, you had to order online, or you thought instead of going to the store, I want to be safer. And so I want to order online, or I don't want to get run over for a roll of toilet paper or a roll of paper towels. So Ryan says to summarize this, when someone's expanding internationally, they have better access. But what are those top line things that they should focus on? One was tax that tax? And the second one I remember was was localization of your brand, their logistics? Was there anything that I missed?
Ryan Cramer 34:15
Those are the major ones. I think if you can figure that out, I think it's, again, knowing who your customer is, you're utilizing data that I'm a big data person. So if you have to be true to what data is telling you. If it's saying that sales are lackluster because of one reason or another, really dive into it and try to figure out why it is because you know something is or your feedback from your customer. Like if you're just ultimately listening to a customer, they're going to tell you what reasons they maybe do or do not want your product. You should have done that in the pre pre phase of as an entrepreneur but kind of test the markets in different parts of the world, right? Like go to social groups in Canada, for example. And if you need to ask questions to that group, say like hey, I'm curious, do people in Canada find this hockey equipment? More or less effective than we do? Do we care about this as much as we do in the United States? And they're like, Oh, yeah, like, in a Canadian tax, I won't even try to -***
Michael Maher 35:13
Done trade. ***
Ryan Cramer 35:15
I'm not gonna offend any Canadians listening right now. But
Michael Maher 35:19
You're so nice. They wouldn't even - Anyway***
Ryan Cramer 35:21
It'd be like, that's okay, man. Yeah. But there's my sad attempt that Canadian accent, but they might want more comfortability, for example, if you have like hockey equipment, more and more comfortability or durability instead of. In the United States, we just want to look cool.
Michael Maher 35:38
Yeah, ---.***
Ryan Cramer 35:39
You know, I mean, they might. Yeah, exactly. So I don't know stuff like that. It really truly does matter. And then your brand, how you brand yourself should stay consistent around the world. But obviously, what's important, you want to highlight those aspects, maybe one person another, like, eco friendly? Or does a - it's time spent doing one thing or another? Yeah, that really does matter to different cultures, different aspects. People may not even need or care for that. But that means that you don't, you don't launch in those.
Michael Maher 36:11
Yeah, it's not a marketplace for you. Alright, I gotta throw a commercial. And I'm just kidding. We don't throw commercials here.
Ryan Cramer 36:18
You could.
Michael Maher 36:18
Ryan, tell people, we're done. That was it quote of the day, the world is just a big blue ball? You can take that to the bank and cash that check. If people want to find you. Where can they find you underground? Chicago? Where should they look?
Ryan Cramer 36:35
Yeah. All the hip joints. In the club. Wherever you're local, wherever you're shopping. I don't even know what I'm trying to say. You can find it. Like, I don't know, I was trying to get all these thoughts in my head. Google, no. Well, there's actually believe it or not, what's Ryan Cramer's which is weird to say or think all with loss, and K but my last name is tested to see. But now you can find me on social media. You can follow me on Instagram or LinkedIn, Facebook, and then also I have a podcast I've probably mentioned once or twice, or it's in the show notes or whatever.
Michael Maher 37:10
Crossover Commerce people
Ryan Cramer 37:12
Crossover commerce. Yeah. Yeah, you can link out to that. There's lots of audio ,great content. I did.
Michael Maher 37:18
I've been on that podcast before and I got to say
Ryan Cramer 37:20
It was twice.
Michael Maher 37:21
It was fun. And part of the reason why Ryan's here cuz we had a good conversation.
Ryan Cramer 37:26
Well, we had a laugh in you know, just I did the thing. I actually started my first. This is really gonna be weird for you. I did my first episode on my first podcast a year ago today. And it came first.
Michael Maher 37:38
Wow. So this is our first recording, people, in case you didn't know. That's crazy.
Ryan Cramer 37:42
This might be the last we don't know. Like it might have bought like, it can only go up from here hopefully.
Michael Maher 37:48
Right?
Ryan Cramer 37:48
But uh, but Yeah, I did. I've done 144 and I did the math and it was weird. It came out to be 161 working days. And then I said, how many have I done per day and it was like 1.8 different episodes per day. So if he's just start doing something, this is also like my want for entrepreneurship. If you just want to do something, start today. Don't wait for it. Because if you're consistent in it, you can walk away with a crazy amount of either revenue, money or whatever.
Michael Maher 38:15
Speaking of hockey to end it. Wayne Gretzky said you miss 100% of the shots you don't take so take a step people that is entrepreneur
Ryan Cramer 38:23
Michael Scott said that
Michael Maher 38:25
Michael Scott said Michael Jordan said Wayne Gretzky said
Ryan Cramer 38:29
That's right.
Michael Maher 38:30
So thank you, Ryan, for attending on the show
Ryan Cramer 38:32
All legends
Michael Maher 38:33
Ping Pong Commerce/Ping Pong Payments. Crossover Commerce. That's where you're gonna find Ryan. We're sponsored by nobody. So enjoy this.***
Ryan Cramer 38:44
Stay tuned for our sponsors.
Michael Maher 38:46
Stay tuned for our sponsors next season. You can find more information about Ryan in the comment section below or not in the comments, but you know what I'm saying? Anyway, people I enjoyed talking with you, Ryan. I had a great time. Let's do it again.
Ryan Cramer 38:59
Awesome.
Michael Maher 38:59
Cheers. We're gonna break out the champagne now.
