About this live episode
The Season 2 finale of The Longer Game was recorded live and unscripted on May 3, 2024. Host Michael Maher, Chief Idea Officer at Cartology, sat down with three returning guests to talk through a changing retail landscape — what shifted after the pandemic e-commerce boom, why margins got so much tighter, and what brands should actually focus on next.
The conversation moves from venture capital cooling on CPG and every line of the P&L being squeezed, to why in-store shopping came back in a big way, how to treat Amazon as a customer acquisition channel without cannibalizing your own store, and why testing — not a perfect formula — is the only real strategy. It closes on the personal side of operating: expectations, fear, seasons, and the systems founders use to stay balanced.
Who was on the panel
Chad Rubin , Founder & CEO of Profasee, brings two decades in e-commerce and the seller's perspective on pricing, margin, and raising capital in an out-of-favor sector. He argues that if you are not Nike or Apple and you are not on Amazon, you are not relevant — and shares the Hoka playbook of putting hero products on Amazon while keeping exclusive, innovative styles on your own store.
Carol Shih , Chief Everything Officer at Qode Space, works on the Shopify and development side. She explains why DTC conversion dips when you open Amazon, Walmart, and Target — it is math, not failure — and why owners who panic and pull marketing investment at the first soft quarter do the most damage. Her rule: data is king, review and pivot, and A/B test everything.
Ryan Burgess , Head of Growth at Intentwise, covers retail media beyond the big two. There are dozens of retail media networks, and the right mix depends on your product and your goal — Home Depot and Lowe's may beat Amazon for power tools. He also makes the case for always-on testing, even on a few hundred dollars a month, and for indexed Amazon brand stores as free traffic.
Key takeaways
- Demand normalized after the pandemic bump, and every P&L line — salaries, logistics, fulfillment — got more expensive, so EBITDA took the hit.
- An out-of-favor sector is often the best time to invest and build; valuations are cheaper and the crowd is gone.
- In-store never left: the majority of retail sales still happen in physical stores, and retailers rebuilt the in-store experience with buy-online-pickup-in-store.
- Opening Amazon, Walmart, or Target splits your audience and lowers DTC conversion. Expect it, plan for it, and do not pull marketing spend in a panic.
- Amazon converts far better than DTC because of trust — treat it as a customer acquisition channel, then bring buyers back for exclusives on your own store.
- Retail media is much bigger than Amazon and Walmart; map your goal first, then pick channels — and be willing to exit a channel that is not working.
- There is no perfect formula. Test, read the data, and pivot; the brands that refuse to experiment never find what works.
- Set expectations before you spend: 10x-ing ad budget does not 10x sales, and fear-driven, undersized investment guarantees disappointment.
- Understand your customer deeply — who they are, what motivates them, where they shop — and channel, pricing, and creative decisions get easier.
- Balance is seasonal, not constant. Get accountability, coaching, or therapy when a season runs too long.